Post by Elaine on Mar 30, 2007 11:08:41 GMT
Tipperary seminar review:
Attended an equine seminar on sport horses organised by Teagasc last night in Cahir. The topics for discussion included:
1. Factors influencing the sale price of young horses
2. Managing the brood mare in late pregnancy
3. International market requirements.
Factors influencing the sale price of young horses
Two people from UCD had prepared a report into this. They studied the catalogue entries and sale prices of sport horse foals who had been sold n Goresbridge from 1999 to 2004.
They compared the catalogue info against the prices, and came up with statistics of what factors influenced the sale prices of foals. For example, if the foal was a colt, more developed, by a well known sire, won in the show ring, etc it would seel for more money than a filly with no known pedigree who hadn't been near a show ring. While the results were interesting in one way, there were some issues to bear in mind regarding the validity of using these reults in a breeding/sales preparation program.
a) A high price in the sales ring does not mean a large (or even small) profit. If you have a foal by a well known sire, then you obviously had to pay a lot more to use the sire in the first place. Profit is crucial if you want to run sport horse breeding professionally, and when this point was addressed to the panel by a local breeder struggling after 10 years of breeding to make it pay, it was implied that they had just been doing it as a hobby and thus hadn't been concerned with the business objectives, which I found a unusual response.
b) Paper never refused ink, as anyone who has seen a horse's description and then viewed a horse in person, probably realises. What is written in a catalogue is a guide, and like the housing market, and sometimes the 'impressive room, huge potential and room for a pony' may in reality turn out to be a view of a nearby smoky factory with the mountains in the distance, falling down and with a small postage stamp garden which a miniature could stand still in without moving.
c) Only a small percentage of foals are sold in sales. Many of the better animals who are likely to make more money are sold privatly with planes of horses routinely going to Europe & America.
Managing the brood mare in late pregnancy
This was a very useful presentation, with lots of info on how & why you need to care for your broodmare during pregnancy and how the mares welfare affects the growing foal. It was stated at one point while horses grow physically until they're 5 to 7 years old, at two years old they are pretty much full grown. This was a misleading statement as a study of the growth of horses would reveal that growth plates in the kness only fuse at about 4 years, and the vertabrae in the back as the last bones to fully develop from 5.5 years up to 7+ years, and thus excessive riding/jumping/lunging, sharp turns, a high speed is likely to cause injury to the growing horse at this stage. Horses unfortunately often 'look' mature to the naked eye at an earlier stage as they grow a lot in height during their intiial years, but the important areas such as final bone development doesn't happen until much later, and if the owner assues his 3 or 4 year old is a fully mature horse, he or she may unknowlingly sent upon a course of schooling which is likely to cause pain or damage.
International market requirements.
These are as follows, in order of importance as judged by an international showjumper:
Scope (jumping 1 metre 40)
Carefullness
Technique
Size (bigger the better)
Confirmation
3/4 bred ideally, rather than 1/2 bred for irish horses
Athletic
Sound
Aptitude towards training
The advantages and disadvantages of irish sport horses V. european warmblood horses were also compared.
The ISP competes at the highest levels normally from ages 10 to 16.
The european horse is ready to compete at the highest level from age 8, but would be nearly finished the the age of 11, so while they are ready earlier, they don't last as long.
However, if you want to buy a high level young horse, with the irish horse you'll have to imagine what he will turn into, while the european horse will be jumping higher at an early stage, so you'll be able to see more.
While european horses were said to have more 'scope', irish horses would be more trainable and have a greater ability to please. Note that while Irish horses were referred to, the term irish horse on the night was used to mean a horse with had a percentage of irish blood in him, but may have been crossed with a european line.
Issues brought up by the Q&A session at the end:
1. Number of local riding centres which had have to close recently because of increased costs & rates & insurance. One local centre had been holding lots of pony clubs, showjumping comps, riding clubs, etc and one of the horse now ridden internationally by the showjumper on the panel used to regularly compete and train there. Now with this resource gone, young riders dont have the opertunity anymore in atht area to compete, train & improve. One of the goals of the EFI (horsesport) is to promote & produce young riders, but with facilities shutting down this seems to be a difficult task.
2. Very hard to make a profit from breeding sport horses.
3. Breeding index used for Irish sires is flawed. A local horse is ranked much higher (won in ireland as a 4 and 5 year old only) than an international irish competion horse who regularly competes and wins abroad. This was put to the panel and it transpired thet the irish sire breeding index ranks sire by the performance in national competitions only, which is a crazy situation. The top horse in the index has only covered 2 mares in the last 5 years one person added.
4. Previously the bar for qualifing for horse grants has been set very high, mainly because of european decisions. One lady who breeds locally when being inspected for grant qualification, who had 10 horses, was told she didn't have enough livestock units and was advised to buy chickens and pigs. On a second inspection she was told she not not own enough land to qualify (renting wasn't recognised)
5. Tipp Inst is doing a study of the sport horse industry in Tipperary at present.
It was an interesting & enjoyable night, and hopefully more of these seminars will be arranged in the future. This seminar is moving around the country so it is an interestring night and worth going to when it comes to your area.
Attended an equine seminar on sport horses organised by Teagasc last night in Cahir. The topics for discussion included:
1. Factors influencing the sale price of young horses
2. Managing the brood mare in late pregnancy
3. International market requirements.
Factors influencing the sale price of young horses
Two people from UCD had prepared a report into this. They studied the catalogue entries and sale prices of sport horse foals who had been sold n Goresbridge from 1999 to 2004.
They compared the catalogue info against the prices, and came up with statistics of what factors influenced the sale prices of foals. For example, if the foal was a colt, more developed, by a well known sire, won in the show ring, etc it would seel for more money than a filly with no known pedigree who hadn't been near a show ring. While the results were interesting in one way, there were some issues to bear in mind regarding the validity of using these reults in a breeding/sales preparation program.
a) A high price in the sales ring does not mean a large (or even small) profit. If you have a foal by a well known sire, then you obviously had to pay a lot more to use the sire in the first place. Profit is crucial if you want to run sport horse breeding professionally, and when this point was addressed to the panel by a local breeder struggling after 10 years of breeding to make it pay, it was implied that they had just been doing it as a hobby and thus hadn't been concerned with the business objectives, which I found a unusual response.
b) Paper never refused ink, as anyone who has seen a horse's description and then viewed a horse in person, probably realises. What is written in a catalogue is a guide, and like the housing market, and sometimes the 'impressive room, huge potential and room for a pony' may in reality turn out to be a view of a nearby smoky factory with the mountains in the distance, falling down and with a small postage stamp garden which a miniature could stand still in without moving.
c) Only a small percentage of foals are sold in sales. Many of the better animals who are likely to make more money are sold privatly with planes of horses routinely going to Europe & America.
Managing the brood mare in late pregnancy
This was a very useful presentation, with lots of info on how & why you need to care for your broodmare during pregnancy and how the mares welfare affects the growing foal. It was stated at one point while horses grow physically until they're 5 to 7 years old, at two years old they are pretty much full grown. This was a misleading statement as a study of the growth of horses would reveal that growth plates in the kness only fuse at about 4 years, and the vertabrae in the back as the last bones to fully develop from 5.5 years up to 7+ years, and thus excessive riding/jumping/lunging, sharp turns, a high speed is likely to cause injury to the growing horse at this stage. Horses unfortunately often 'look' mature to the naked eye at an earlier stage as they grow a lot in height during their intiial years, but the important areas such as final bone development doesn't happen until much later, and if the owner assues his 3 or 4 year old is a fully mature horse, he or she may unknowlingly sent upon a course of schooling which is likely to cause pain or damage.
International market requirements.
These are as follows, in order of importance as judged by an international showjumper:
Scope (jumping 1 metre 40)
Carefullness
Technique
Size (bigger the better)
Confirmation
3/4 bred ideally, rather than 1/2 bred for irish horses
Athletic
Sound
Aptitude towards training
The advantages and disadvantages of irish sport horses V. european warmblood horses were also compared.
The ISP competes at the highest levels normally from ages 10 to 16.
The european horse is ready to compete at the highest level from age 8, but would be nearly finished the the age of 11, so while they are ready earlier, they don't last as long.
However, if you want to buy a high level young horse, with the irish horse you'll have to imagine what he will turn into, while the european horse will be jumping higher at an early stage, so you'll be able to see more.
While european horses were said to have more 'scope', irish horses would be more trainable and have a greater ability to please. Note that while Irish horses were referred to, the term irish horse on the night was used to mean a horse with had a percentage of irish blood in him, but may have been crossed with a european line.
Issues brought up by the Q&A session at the end:
1. Number of local riding centres which had have to close recently because of increased costs & rates & insurance. One local centre had been holding lots of pony clubs, showjumping comps, riding clubs, etc and one of the horse now ridden internationally by the showjumper on the panel used to regularly compete and train there. Now with this resource gone, young riders dont have the opertunity anymore in atht area to compete, train & improve. One of the goals of the EFI (horsesport) is to promote & produce young riders, but with facilities shutting down this seems to be a difficult task.
2. Very hard to make a profit from breeding sport horses.
3. Breeding index used for Irish sires is flawed. A local horse is ranked much higher (won in ireland as a 4 and 5 year old only) than an international irish competion horse who regularly competes and wins abroad. This was put to the panel and it transpired thet the irish sire breeding index ranks sire by the performance in national competitions only, which is a crazy situation. The top horse in the index has only covered 2 mares in the last 5 years one person added.
4. Previously the bar for qualifing for horse grants has been set very high, mainly because of european decisions. One lady who breeds locally when being inspected for grant qualification, who had 10 horses, was told she didn't have enough livestock units and was advised to buy chickens and pigs. On a second inspection she was told she not not own enough land to qualify (renting wasn't recognised)
5. Tipp Inst is doing a study of the sport horse industry in Tipperary at present.
It was an interesting & enjoyable night, and hopefully more of these seminars will be arranged in the future. This seminar is moving around the country so it is an interestring night and worth going to when it comes to your area.