Ok, so the problem isn't that he jogs a little on hacks, this is an extreme issue in so far that the horse is very hard/impossbile to control in company when outside your home, to the point where he's dangerous and you cannot hunt him.
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Ok, aside from the obvious (rider excited, too much food, lack of exercise, pain of any sort), if you've all these things crossed off as not being the cause, then the next place I'd start to work on is leadership.
The problem is when it suits him he'll listen to you (but not in company, not too many distrations) but once he does have a lot of (exciting) distrations (more horses), he stops listening to you & just wants to do his own thing.
- is he herd bound by the way??
I'm not keen to give out instructions on the net, as really to be honest, its nearly impossible to judge whats acually going on until you actually see the horse in front of you & try a few things and see what happens.
If he was my horse though, and I had this issue, I'd want it fixed, and I'd want to keep everyone safe while I fixed it. If he's unmanagable out hunting to the point you cant hunt him then this is a big issue, will need a fair bit or patience repetitive work to retrain, and I'd go back to the VERY basics, get them right then buld back up to hacking.
So I'd start at home working on developing a 'yes boss' horse... so.......
I'm not looking for a good horse. My standards are very high so I'm looking for a near perfect horse
Remember you get what you settle for. Some of the things you try to do below will not be easy. But they will help your horse to realise that you are in charge, no matter what the circumstances or time of day or manouvre or company you both are in.
I'd ask him to do small things, and do them perfectly in an easy situation, while you're on the ground.
Lead on a loose rein. Get good at this then lead in a safe area with no rein.
I'd start moving his legs - backup, yields, sidepassing - if you control the legs, you control your horses head.
I'd start working on keeping him still ON A LOOSE REIN - while I did LOTS of stuff - leave stable door open, tack up, get up on both sides, wave plastic bags, wave sticks, etc. You're training your horse that he is only to move a foot when YOU specifically ask him to move a foot. If he takes an unauthorised step forwards, IMMEDIATELY ask him for a step back.
All this stuff above develops leadership - a horse who is used to doing as asked, who has gotton any arguments out of his system, and who has learnt though expereince that YOU are the boss - a nice boss but ALWAYS the leader.
After all this, then I'd repeat it all on the ground, but bring in a distraction - another horse maybe. If your horse forgets abtou you a bit, BRILLIANT, just keep on what your doing, the same rsults will probably take a little longer to achieve, but you're teaching you horse a VALUABLE lessons.
When perfect, then go somewhere different - when training horses, if you just do stuff in one area, they can *assume* you only want them to 'behave' like this in that arena - so cos you've never trained them in the lane or the back field like this - they might not think the training applies to EVERYWHERE - not just the arena.
So the next step is find somewhere else safe, not your usualy training place, and repeat all again.
When perfect, repeat all with a strange horse nearby. Again, only settle for the *MOST PERFECTLY* behaved horse
if it takes time it takes the time it takes. It will be worth it.
Also worth noting that this has to be consistent - EVERYONE handling this horse has to use the same groundlines - if you ask for perfect manners everywhere, but others dont, it'll just confuse the poor horse.
OK, so now you're at the stage when, while on teh ground, you can lead on a loose rein, stop horse without pulling on lead rope, horse will stand still for 10 hours if required, you can move back feet on their own, you can move front feet on their own, you can move one step backwards, you can tack up horse and mount without once putting any pressure on lead rope / reins - and all of this you can do in your usualy training place, in your lane way, and in your back field, with or without another horse present and trying their best to be a distraction to you.
Whan all this is PERFECT (and yes I mean perfect, cos if you get all this right you've got the best chance of succeeding) then start it all over again, but do as much of it in the saddle.
Again, you're looking for the 'yes boss' horse, startgin when you're alone doing easy stuff, moving onto being in a well know place with a another horse, then ONLY WHEN PERFECT, making thngs a little more difficult by moving out to a bigger paddock with a distraction horse, and repeating it all out there.
Then go out to a field (maybe the one your hacks start in) and do all the ridnig out here again - stand still, reverse, HQ yield, FQ yield, sidepass, stand still again, circle in walk, one ot two steps of trot in a circle, back to walk & halt - WITH the distraction hose nearby, riding away from you, riding towards you, etc. basically EVERYTHING you can think of to distract your horse. ONLY when PERFECT, would I then think about a short hack.
If you're horse cant behave himself in the corner of a field doing a little warm up, then there's no way you're going to reward misbehaviour with an exciting hack!! He's got to EARN his nice hacks! Its all about doing so much preparation that the hack itself, (maybe in a few weeks time - will be a complete non-event as you're done all the work for it already.
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the hack
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Ok, so you've got a beautifully mannered horse, listening to you, 'yes boss' attitude, and can perform about ten different things perfectly with one horse as distracting company in the safety of your home.
For your first hack I'd make it a short one
Walk out with another horse in a safe field. If your horse trots, ask the other horse to stop & wait, and circle him in a tight circle until he walks again - don't pull him to stop, let him CHOOSE when he wants to walk again. Then IMMEDIATELY make him trot again in the circle for another few minutes. Then YOU let him come back to a walk.
So if he wants to trot for 2 minutes, fine, but he's going to end up trotting for four minutes.
Ask him to walk on. If he walks on nicely (and this is a BIG achievement), stop both horses. Even if you've just been riding for 3 minutes.
Dismount both horses. Take your saddle off. Lead horses home, carry saddle back, let them off immediately.
An unexpected ending of work has a HUGE impact on a horse.
So if your horse does ask you ask (walk) he gets a BRILIANT reward - immediate end of the lesson.
If he trots, you will just keep him trotting for longer than he wanted to trot for in tight circles. - This is why its better to do this in a safe field, dont do it on the road.
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2nd HACK
Same again. trot tight circles if he jogs, if he walks a little longer than yesterday (up to you, but something you feel is a fair achievement), again dismount and lead him home straight away.
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20 HACKS later
ok, maybe now if you go out for a half an hour hack he will only try to jog twice, and both times after a few tight circles he'll walk again. Time for your first trot.
Have a nice easy unrushed walk. Gently with the SMALLEST cue, ask for a trot. After a few steps in trot, go back to walk, stop, then reverse three steps. Then stand still. Then, ater this HUGE achievement, dismount, untack, lead horse home as a BIG reward.
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Anyway! Sorry, its not quick fix but then if it was as either josh or john lyons wrote somewhere McDonalds would be selling it
The idea is you go back to the basics.
You split up one very difficult thing (riding in company with manners) into LOTS of easy things
You do as much prepaeration as possible to maximise your potential for sucess
Everytime your horse 'gets' something, you reward STRAIGHT away with a rest / end of lesson / rub etc.
Alwys have a plan for when you're horse doesnt do as you ask.
ALWAYS stay safe - thus do as much prepartion work and training in safe areas - arenas, enclosed fields, wear hat, etc.
Treat it like a fun game - how good can you & your hrose get at each part?
Make it fun - it slike sendign your horse back to school, you are the teacher and you're going to enjoy this process.
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Not sure if any of that is any good to you, but using small repetive non-stressful consistent steps while ensuring everyone is kept safe, and you reward EVERY time you see an improvement / achievement, can train a horse to do nearly anything
Sorry for the long post
It might be a bit longer than what you were hoping for
(I tend to try to do things once, but do them thoroughly even if it takes an extra week, rather than half do something once then have to go back later on and try and do it again. I reckon you get out what you put in).
I don't want an ok horse, I want a great horse! My goal for this horse would be to be a perfect gentleman out on all hacks, to the point where you might be thinking that maybe hunting is an option again down the road.
- anyone else dealt with this issue before?
