Post by Elaine on Dec 17, 2008 19:58:55 GMT
Myth No. 11 - Timing Is Critical in Horse Training - ross jacobs
(ok, haven´t read this, but thought would be interesting to start a discussion (in internet cafe dont have much time!)
I hope I can be very clear here about this notion of the importance of timing.
We hear a lot about how one of the secrets to being good with horses is to have really good timing. Choosing the moment to release pressure is very important in horse training. The earlier you release the pressure when a horse has had a change of thought, the easier it is for him to associate the response with a relief from pressure. In theory, this should mean he will learn the correct response more quickly.
BUT
I don't believe timing is critical. I don't believe that if you have poor timing and are late with your releases that a horse can not learn the correct response. I my view, consistency is more important than timing. If you are consistent in the way you present pressure and release pressure your horse can still learn to respond correctly - no matter how late you are. It will probably take him longer to learn, but that just means you need to do more repetitions.
Many trainers believe that you only have a few seconds to release the pressure once a horse has responded if he is to associate his response to the removal of pressure. John Lyons talks about a 3 second rule where you must act within 3 seconds for it to have meaning to the horse (this hold true for punishment too according to John). Andrew McLean believes that you have less than 10 seconds.
I don't believe this at all. I am not saying that a horse's memory can reflect on his response and the person's response for an unlimited time in order to connect a meaning. But I do believe that if a person is consistent and repeats the scenario enough times, the timing is not nearly as critical as many believe.
A few years ago I was working at a property that had a feed room with a very squeeky door. The squeek was so loud it could be heard almost all over the property. Every morning and evening I would go into the feed room to make up the feeds. It usually took me about 20 minutes to make the feeds before I would take them to the paddocks to give to each horse. All the horses would be waiting for their meals at their gate. They could not see the feed room or see me come and go from the feed room, but they would hear the squeek and have no idea that the noise came from the feed room door.
When a new horse arrived on the property they would hear the squeek too, but because it had no meaning to them they would not be waiting at their gate for meals when I did my rounds of giving out the feeds. But after somewhere from a week to 10 days the new horses would begin waiting at their gates just like the others. It took about 20 minutes between hearing the squeek and their feed to appear in their feed buckets, yet they learned the association between the noise of the door and being feed in just a few days of being fed. That meant that anywhere between 14 and 20 repetitions was enough for the horse's to learn this behaviour despite the timing of the reward being incredibly late (20 minutes late!) in the eyes of most trainers.
When I began to notice this behaviour I started to experiment and play around with this to try to determine the trigger that got the horse's to wait at the gate. At first I thought that because I fed at the same time each day that horse's were working off their biological clock which told them it was getting close to feeding time and so they waited at the gate. But I started varying the feeding times by several minutes and then hours and the horse's were always waiting. I then tried feeding the horse's as usual, but at different times of the day I would open and close the feed room door without actually showing up with any feed. The horse's always wandered to their gate when they heard the squeek. The next thing I tried was to fix the door so that it hardly made any noise. When I did this and went to feed the horses none of them were waiting by their gates.
My experiment with the feeding was not definitive and by no means conclusive. But in my work as a trainer I have watched and thought about the notion of the importance of timing of a reward a lot. All my work and experience leads me to conclude that while early (good) timing is important in training, consistency of timing is more important.
(ok, haven´t read this, but thought would be interesting to start a discussion (in internet cafe dont have much time!)
I hope I can be very clear here about this notion of the importance of timing.
We hear a lot about how one of the secrets to being good with horses is to have really good timing. Choosing the moment to release pressure is very important in horse training. The earlier you release the pressure when a horse has had a change of thought, the easier it is for him to associate the response with a relief from pressure. In theory, this should mean he will learn the correct response more quickly.
BUT
I don't believe timing is critical. I don't believe that if you have poor timing and are late with your releases that a horse can not learn the correct response. I my view, consistency is more important than timing. If you are consistent in the way you present pressure and release pressure your horse can still learn to respond correctly - no matter how late you are. It will probably take him longer to learn, but that just means you need to do more repetitions.
Many trainers believe that you only have a few seconds to release the pressure once a horse has responded if he is to associate his response to the removal of pressure. John Lyons talks about a 3 second rule where you must act within 3 seconds for it to have meaning to the horse (this hold true for punishment too according to John). Andrew McLean believes that you have less than 10 seconds.
I don't believe this at all. I am not saying that a horse's memory can reflect on his response and the person's response for an unlimited time in order to connect a meaning. But I do believe that if a person is consistent and repeats the scenario enough times, the timing is not nearly as critical as many believe.
A few years ago I was working at a property that had a feed room with a very squeeky door. The squeek was so loud it could be heard almost all over the property. Every morning and evening I would go into the feed room to make up the feeds. It usually took me about 20 minutes to make the feeds before I would take them to the paddocks to give to each horse. All the horses would be waiting for their meals at their gate. They could not see the feed room or see me come and go from the feed room, but they would hear the squeek and have no idea that the noise came from the feed room door.
When a new horse arrived on the property they would hear the squeek too, but because it had no meaning to them they would not be waiting at their gate for meals when I did my rounds of giving out the feeds. But after somewhere from a week to 10 days the new horses would begin waiting at their gates just like the others. It took about 20 minutes between hearing the squeek and their feed to appear in their feed buckets, yet they learned the association between the noise of the door and being feed in just a few days of being fed. That meant that anywhere between 14 and 20 repetitions was enough for the horse's to learn this behaviour despite the timing of the reward being incredibly late (20 minutes late!) in the eyes of most trainers.
When I began to notice this behaviour I started to experiment and play around with this to try to determine the trigger that got the horse's to wait at the gate. At first I thought that because I fed at the same time each day that horse's were working off their biological clock which told them it was getting close to feeding time and so they waited at the gate. But I started varying the feeding times by several minutes and then hours and the horse's were always waiting. I then tried feeding the horse's as usual, but at different times of the day I would open and close the feed room door without actually showing up with any feed. The horse's always wandered to their gate when they heard the squeek. The next thing I tried was to fix the door so that it hardly made any noise. When I did this and went to feed the horses none of them were waiting by their gates.
My experiment with the feeding was not definitive and by no means conclusive. But in my work as a trainer I have watched and thought about the notion of the importance of timing of a reward a lot. All my work and experience leads me to conclude that while early (good) timing is important in training, consistency of timing is more important.
