it kills me to see this...

[bobbicotter29]

a new 5 year old gelding arrived at the livery yard yesterday evening for the yard owner to train him for some locals. he's a very timid connemara who's just come down from living on the mountains his whole life, not really used to people, and he was so so scared standing right in the corner of the stable.

what got me was that he hadn't even been on the yard i'd say an hour by the time i arrived after work and already the poor boy had a roller and saddle cloth on him. No such thing as letting him settle into his new surroundings. he was so scared he wouldn't eat. he was so scared his stomach was clearly very upset. he's never had anything on his body before and now suddenly there was this thing stuck around his belly, he kept looking at it, biting it, trying to figure out what the heck it was. poor boy.

i had a wee chat with Mia and reminded her how scary it was to be in a new place and told her to be nice and talk to him. there are 2 stables between them but there are metal bars in each stable so they could see each other. Mia stood looking at him through the bars and he watched her so carefully, jumping everytime she moved or sighed. poor boy

this morning the yard owner told me that Mia and the new gelding were getting on really well so tomorrow they will be turned out together. my sweet girl listened to me. well probably not, but she's still being such a sweet girl. the other 2 horses on the yard are totally ignoring the gelding, but mia stepped up and is being the better horse.

the gelding was worked today. his first day in a new place. new people. a thing stuck around his belly. and he was worked. i saw the lunginf canvesson outside his stable. no such thing as letting the boy settle.

i don't think there'll be anything natural about his training. afterall she advertises breaking. and break he will.

poor boy.

PS peadar and i are being super nice to this little cutie pie and he responds so nicely to a kind soft word and even peeks his head out over the stable from time to time to say hello to us.

[intouch]

Sadly this is accepted practice and there is little we can do except set an example. Some horses will be lucky enough to have understanding owners for at least part of their lives - credit must go to others whose character survives despite less than kind treatment.
It's a bit like bringing up kids - everyone does their best, given the knowledge they have at the time. Don't tell me I'm doing it wrong - show me a better way.
(PS - your kids will tell you you did it wrong - no matter how you tried!)

[bobbicotter29]

Intouch, it is very unfortunate that this is widely accepted. I felt so strongly for this poor gelding.

TK, it may be fine to start working with an already trained horse the day after you bring him home (i personally would even leave a trained horse for a few days to settle into its new environment but thats just my way of doing things) but this pony was taken in from the wild, he'd lived on the mountains his whole 5 years and suddenly he was carted away from everything he knew and told (not asked) to work.

The gelding was a sweet sweet pony, he and Mia got on really well and soon became the best of friends. The gelding was worked everyday being lunged using sidereins (the woman admitted it was the only way she could control him- this made me grind my teeth). After being at the stables for less than 2 weeks she backed him. I wasn;t there when she did it but when i arrived at the stables that evening i found the gelding cowering in the back of his stable. terrifed. from that day on he was a different pony. its like something snapped in him, and i don't blame him. he seemed to disassociate himself from everything. he seemed angry, and scared. He was sent back to his owners not long after, the woman saying she could do no more with the pony.

I dread to think what happened that day she backed him. did he react in a way she didn't like and he got punished for it? I think so, but can't say for sure. whatever happened that pony changed. I sure hope someone with a gentle and understanding hand will take over his training as he's got the sweetest heart

[kizzywizzy]

Well, to me there is a lot more to training a horse than not using obvious abuse. If we want a horse to trust us, and enjoy being ridden, we need to give him as much time and understanding as he needs.

Before I ever heard of 'natural horsemanship' I had been 'breaking and schooling' horses for many years - I used the word 'breaking' as it was the only word I knew - 'starting' was in fact what I did, I just didn't know that was the correct word for the way I intuitively worked with the young horses.

Now, I began my career with ponies and cobs, but then spent over 12 years backing and schooling thoroughbreds that were to go racing, eventing, etc or in preparation for the sales, as well as some well bred sport horses that were destined for showing, eventing, jumping dressage etc, and more ponies and cobs!
Neither I nor the man I worked for, would ever start working with a horse the first day he arrived.
We would let him settle, maybe put him out in the sand ring for a roll, and the next day, let him out in a paddock for a graze, and try to find a quiet companion for him when turned out. If the horse was particularly nervous or highly strung, we would leave him out all the time, just bring him in for work, feed, grooming, and then let out again. These sorts were never fully stabled until we had them riding happily, and all the horses were turned out before we worked them, so they would be relaxed before doing anything with them each day. Before they started 'work' we got them used to being handled all over, groomed, picked up their feet, all taking the time needed to do this gently.
We used to start by getting the horse leading happily, often having another horse give him a lead to encourage him to follow and stride out. This would be on a head collar. Next a bit would be introduced, to allow him chew on it, but no lead or rein attached for ages. When the horse was happy leading with a bit, we would put a lunge line on to the head collar, and ask him to walk and trot slowly on both reins in the stable yard - this was a familiar place, closed in, and a little slippery, so he wouldn't be inclined to play up here. Next we would try an elastic surcingle on, just hold it around the horse, and take it off, looking to see if he was sensitive to a belly strap. If he was happy with this, we would put a saddle pad or numnah over his back, and hold it on with the elastic surcingle, with a breast strap to stop it going backwards. All this would be done in the stable, talking gently to the horse, eventually asking him to walk quietly around the stable on both reins. Only a couple of horses ever plunged or bucked in my 12 years, they were horses that had already been 'started' before coming to us, and were traumatized. We soon found out what scared them, and worked to de-sensitize them slowly to what had scared them.
After the horse was happy with the pad and surcingle in the stable, we would gently walk him around on the lunge in the yard, maybe a little slow jogging. All this process could take 2 - 3 weeks, never going faster than the horse was happy with.
We then used a roller, using a fluffy girth sleeve to avoid rubbing and irritation to the girth, and started with very loose side reins clipped onto the head collar. We always crossed the side reins over in front of the withers, to prevent the horse putting his head so low that he could get a leg over a rein if he did get a fright and rear.
Next, we would start long reining, again, out of the head collar, and would walk the horse around the stable yard, around the hay barn, and little paths around the farm. The only time the horse would go into the sand ring would be for turn out for a roll, so he got to like the sand ring, and not see it as a place where strange things happened. By the time the horse would walk on, turn and halt, we would then clip the long reins to the bit and head collar together, so only very slight pressure would come on the bit. As soon as the horse was walking calmly this way, the reins would be put directly on to the bit. The horse would then be taken driving all over the place, out on the roads, around fields, on the beach, everywhere to have him going happily past objects, going away from the driver, and taking a nice soft contact on the bit. We would then start slow 'lunging' in the sand ring with two long reins. This helped keep the horse straight, and started to build up his strength to take a rider on his back without strain. Again, this could take as long as necessary to have the horse happy, and relaxed. The roller would be replaced by the saddle when the horse was ready, and the side reins replaced by riding reins, put behind the stirrups, and folded up under the chin through the throat latch, safe from being caught up in anything, and allowing the horse to stretch his head and neck long and low. By this time, when the horse would be able to canter gently around the sand ring, on both reins, balanced, time to back!
Into a large stable with a very deep litter bed, so he would have a good grip and not slip onto concrete. I was legged up over the saddle, and would lie quietly for a few seconds, then down, several times on each side. Then, with me holding onto the saddle with outside hand and the neckstrap with inside, the horse would be asked to walk quietly in a circle. This would be repeated several times on each rein. Some horses would not be mounted for several days, until they were very happy with me lying there, patting their neck on both sides with my hands, talking away. Then I would be legged up, sit quietly, and be led around the stable, again on both reins. When the horse was ready, the next stage was for me to take up the reins, and gently ask the horse to stop, at the same time as the leader. Then help to steer around the stable. Then gently lay my legs on the horses sides. Then squeeze when he was being asked to walk on. This would progress to the stage where I would be starting, steering and stopping the horse on both reins, still being led. Next the lead rope was taken off, and I was on my own, with the trainer still in the middle. Next step, trainer would leave the stable, after the horse was warmed up, and I was riding independently. When the horse was happy with this, we would go up to the stable yard, and repeat the process. By the time I had the horse able to jog a few steps in the yard, and was confident he would stop for me, we would head out on the roads, with a sensible lead horse, or someone on a bike, if we had a quiet one! 3 - 4 weeks of walking and slow trotting around the roads, building up from 5 minutes to an hour, depending on how old, strong and fit the horse was, never bringing him home tired. Then, and only then, into the sand ring, to start a little schooling. For a three year old, we liked to work up to have him just able to canter off a few strides on each leg and then let him off until he was 4, then repeat the process. If the horse was 4, we would do a bit more schooling, taking into account how well built he was, how strong, supple and athletic. We would loose jump a four year old, and I would maybe do some trot work over ground poles, but unless the owner insisted, I never jumped a young horse until he was riding really well on the flat for 6 months, or until he was 5. We liked to send a young horse home for a break before he was schooled. This gave him time to think about what he had learned, and often the next time he came in, a nervous horse was more confident, and would be no problem.
This method of 'training' saw me able to ride some very hot, difficult, nervous horses without upsetting them. Their mouths were always made on the long reins before they were backed, and they were never asked to go to the next stage until they were relaxed and happy. I backed some horses without ever having to lunge them before sitting up, and for the very hot ones, we would lunge them just for a couple for minutes, without side reins, to let them settle, before I would sit up. In 12 years, and maybe 500 + horses, I only had about 6 falls, mostly from horses that came to be re-started, after someone else had made a mess of them, these were the difficult ones, because owners would never say what had gone wrong, we had to try and figure it out from the horse's reactions, and sometimes didn't get it right!!!!
I would be interested in comments on this method? We took longer than many trainers, but owners came back year after year, because they were delighted with how their horses were to ride and handle. After I hit 50, I stopped backing thoroughbreds, getting too old and stiff, and my reactions just a bit too slow - you don't bounce when you fall any more!

So now I am on my journey to refine my training skills, using what I am learning through positive, natural methods, but having a wealth of experience of working with so many different horses. My work with the ISPCA doesn't involve riding (at the moment!) but the harder work of regaining an abused horses' trust. I find it exciting to learn new and different skills after 40 years of 'conventional' training. But I don't think I ever 'broke' a horse!!!!!

I don't envy the owner of the poor connemara pony that was so unkindly treated in the livery yard. I would so love to have him here, and let him find his confidence in humans again!

Sorry for going on at length! I was so upset that anyone would think of taking a horse so fast.
Cathy