Strasser Trimming.

[amanda1066]

I have never studied Strasser's theories or method but of course have heard many horror stories about horses being 'butchered' and made extremely sore etc. etc. so I have always remained with the methodology I first discovered and that my horses tell me is right for them aka a Natural trim and very slight variations on it. That trim is described by Jaime Jackson and taken forward by Pete Ramey et al.

Two days ago I was a witness to a set up trim performed by a person trained by Hiltrud Strasser. I wish to urge everyone to think very, very carefully before employing someone trained in the methodology as the impact on the horses was devastating. All the horses had problems, flat over grown 'dinner plate' hooves but they were getting around ok and were comfortable and had always been comfortable after Pete Ramey type non professional trims. After this 'Strasser trim' they were devastated, unable to walk even on surfaces they were comfortable on immediately prior to the trim. and were constantly lying down. One mare could hardly walk with pads on all four feet. Luckily they are comfortable and safe now in a sand arena and only time will tell how they are in future.
This trim was performed with NO mention of any special care afterwards of any need for hoof protection or comfortable, conformable surfaces or pain relief. No mention was made of the sole that was left so thin abscessing is a major risk. NO mention was made that the heels and bars would be slashed so hard that the horses cannot stand in comfort under their own weight or that their whole bodies would be subjected to a sudden and very drastic change in angles, hoof function and stride which no doubt will have impacted on the muscles and ligaments not prepared for this extreme change.

Please, please EVERYONE out there DO NOT allow this trim to be performed on your horses unless they are in a specialist environment under Veterinary care with all support systems available immediately. I personally wouldn't even allow a Vet to do this to my horses...

I consider doing this to horses and owners with NO advice about post trim comfort and support unethical and cruel on both horses and owners. I seriously think this trim should not be allowed to be performed in a home environment and I shudder to think of horses that may have been trimmed in this way and left to suffer...

I am writing this everywhere I can and will no doubt come up with a much better argument over time, I certainly feel there are serious horse welfare issues that need urgent consideration in regards to this trim and the overall support and advice in aftercare.

Modified because after speaking to the owner I had misunderstood and the horses were not walked on grass immediately post or since trim, pads were applied asap and they were moved to a sand arena. We have no way of knowing if they would have been comfortable on grass post trim. They were off grass in an attempt to control symptoms in their hooves and results of hay analysis are in the pipe line.

The correction to the description is in italics.

[courtingthehorse]

Hi Amanda, thanks for posting this. It is vital to get feedback about the small number of trimmers that are out there. This is the only way that things will get better for horses and the people looking after them.

I have no direct experience of Strasser trimming but have heard two bad reports in Ireland recently. I do not know anyone else who is using strasser so I can't balance that out with any good reports that may be there.

Have you had any other experience of strasser trimming? Does anyone here know of anyone who uses it succesfully. I can't understand why a method will continue if there is so much bad press about it.

I hope all the horses in question recover quickly and never have to go through this again.

[amanda1066]

Aug 2, 2011 13:00:27 GMT courtingthehorse said:

Have you had any other experience of strasser trimming? Does anyone here know of anyone who uses it succesfully. I can't understand why a method will continue if there is so much bad press about it.

No I haven't and I was under the impression and believed that all those trained by Strasser had modified their practice and no longer used invasive trims. This is why I wanted to put this experience out there to warn others that there were still hard line practitioners out there.

[amanda1066]

I've just been pointed to this group and advised to read the posts from the beginning. sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/BarefootUK/

[amanda1066]

Here is a quote from a poster on another Forum where I have posted...
Quote:
The horses are comfortable and lying down less and the owner is very traumatized still and very, very ashamed and guilty.
I'm trying to work out how on earth this has happened to try and see what the warning signs are as well as why I personally didn't commit an illegal act or do more/something effective.
Quote:
Reply to my post above...

The strasser era started in approx 1999 and ran up to approx 2004 by which time most had gone to ground or adapted All the owners felt guitly, truamatized and ashamed at what they had allowed to be done to their horses. The Strasser trimmed horses were sods to trim afterwards as they were so upset by the pain that had been caused to them they wouldn't pick their feet up. So much structure was taken away that the feet "pancaked". Recovering that structure was very difficult. Strasser horses were meant to abscess. It was welcomed. I remember the first time I met a field of Strasser trimmed horses many were lying down. I was told several were abscessing and this was good.
I remember Majorie Smith telling me that Strasser warned clients that mechanical laminitis was a risk after a trim.


It is a pity that the threads on the old DG are no longer available as this subject was covered in depth.
The only way we got rid of Strasser was by publicity. Naming and shaming but it was very difficult for owners who felt so bad at what they had done to their beloved horses to come speak out. The longer they kept quiet the more horses were harmed.

Mandal I would urge you to post the name of this person who is presumably a qualified trimmer. I can see no reason as to why that should not be done. If they are upset they can come on here and explain. I would also suggest you post the name of the organisation/ body she is a member of by bringing the organisation to the forefront people will be aware for the future.

I appreciate your friend got caught out by this and did not realise what was happening when she booked this trimmer. I would urge her to contact the RSPCA, WHW etc to bring it to their attention as to what has happened. (ILPH were very familiar with the problems) Presumably she is a "good" horsekeeper so she would not be blamed but until it is brought into the open others will not be aware of it.

I would suggest that if sole has been carved out that your friend put sole mates on the horse. The thick strong ones that EPs sell. Personally I would put them in something like Old macs but they can be taped on. These will protect the feet whilst they heal.

Pat
If anyone has got this far and thinks I am exagerating then join the yahoo group barefoot UK and start reading the posts from the begining. You will realise that I am completely understating the position.

sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/BarefootUK/

End quote.

Admin do remove this link if you wish but I feel so strongly about this I will post the web address on the card I was given by Jo Moss who is the Trimmer I am referring to.
www.horsethinking.com/

Interestingly there is no reference Strasser on her web site although I must say the owner was aware of her training with Strasser.

[amanda1066]

Just to say the horses are comfortable in pads and on sand. Boots have very kindly been given.
I saw them today and must say the neat little hooves that were there post trim have gone already! I'm amazed just how quickly the hooves are growing. The neat little hooves are being replaced by the flared, flat hooves that the horses wore prior to this trim already...

[amanda1066]

Just adding this link as there is some information and past experience as well as emotion on it. ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gh11&action=display&thread=116664

The horses remain apparently comfortable in the sand arena, moving around freely and interacting and eating normally. Their hooves are growing noticeably daily and more flared externally.

[amanda1066]

I've been advised by an experienced trimmer with a lot of experience with Strasser trimmed horses in England in the early 2000's to post my description of one hoof trim to help people in Ireland recognize the signs and be in a more informed position to put a stop to the trim if they are at all concerned.


I'll describe what I saw on one pony, I did not see it all. This pony appeared the sorest after the trim. I did not see or could hear it all and there was a lot of conversation and questioning between trimmer and OH of owner who was very interested that was done closely over the hoof.
The comments of all the people I’ve mentioned are likely not 100% accurate but are the words I remember and of course it is my understanding and the memories which are somewhat muddled.

First there had been apparently no mention that the pony might be sore before or certainly wasn't in my hearing during the trim.

The hoof was picked up, long hoof wall, slight V shaped hair line at the back of the hoof at bulbs was noted and trimmer stated this hair line should be straight. I think hoof mechanism was mentioned at this point but don’t remember for certain.

First nippers were used to remove all outer hoof wall flare outside the sole ie. up to the white line/adjacent to sole. This was done all the way round the hoof with the nippers held at 90% to the hoof held in her hand and finished with the rasp held sideways on. Explanation... 'all flare had to be removed'. I don't remember any other explanation at the time.

Next frog and neighbouring sole addressed. Tip of frog loose and over grown, trimmer stated ‘that has to go, it's not even attached, look.’ Then the frog was worked, the loose tip was removed and then frog tissue removed in slivers until it was flush with the sole at the tip, all the time also running the knife up along all aspects of the frog allowing the frog to remain slightly more raised as it neared the back of the hoof.

The sole around the frog was also addressed in between the frog being shaped trimmer said 'all had to flow up and out away from there (indicating tip of frog with her knife) in all directions to create concavity'. The back of the frog, quarter area and back of sole was addressed. The bars had also been taken level with the sole at this time but the knife work was quick, moved from area to area and I couldn't see clearly at all times. I remember lots of exchanging knives and mention of taking slivers and working carefully by the trimmer.
The owner at some point had queried about removing sole and the trimmer stood up and explained how cutting the overgrown nail on your finger was different to cutting the nail still attached to the nail bed. She pointed to the parts of her own finger to illustrate this as she explained and then returned to removing sole.

Next the bars and seat of corn were addressed along with the heels. The sole over and around the bars was removed in slivers, trimmer stated as she worked ‘I‘m taking the heels back, back‘ The owner queried what this meant "what does this taking the heels back mean?" trimmer replied words like… ’I’m taking the heels back, back not down. I’m taking a sliver, look, I’m taking the heels back.’ There was talk of feeling different textures as well but I was feeling sick at this point. Slivers and more slivers were removed in this area on both sides. They were slivers but there was an awful lot of them. All the time she explained she was getting that concavity and getting rid of lumps and humps and taking only a sliver (that stuck in my head). There was work on the heel height briefly with the rasp but the knives also worked here, flat, back, up and out. trimmer said 'heels must be level'.
At some point during this work at the back of the foot the owner had again queried removing sole and trimmer had said the horse will tell me. The owner at point said ‘there, she’s telling you’ and the trimmer replied ‘no, she’s not, not yet’ and continued working until the pony snatched her hoof away.

This part of the trim took by far the longest and then she went back around the sole taking off any lumps she could feel to 'get it all smooth and concave' She sighted down the back of the hoof for heel, hoof balance and concavity a few times during this.

The work was inspected by eye and any minor slivers removed as necessary from any areas that were a lump or hump with much feeling of the sole for smoothness.

Then the top of the hoof wall, held a little forward in trimmer's hand, was very lightly addressed at the bottom with a rasp mostly again round the rim of wall at the base held horizontal to the hoof. No rasping to remove flare on the outer wall was done when I watched.
The Trimmer did say she was 'making the hoof look pretty' at some point.

The hoof was put down and we were told to look at the 30% angle (to the ground) of the coronary band when an imaginary line from it met the ground. More accurately, we were told to look at the 30% angle of the hair line at the top of the hoof. We were told to look at the new angle of the front hoof wall and told it was around 45% to the ground viewed from the side. No protractor was used to measure angles.

I did not hear many questions asked by the clients OH or the answers, just picked out the words concavity often, back, sliver and smooth repeated a few times.

When complete the solar view of the hoof showed an opaque whitish sole of a waxy appearance, a slightly grey back half of a very flat frog and two whiter lines where the bars were.
We were told to walk the pony up and down and she noted how much improved her gait was and asked us to listen to the 'clip, clop noise from her hooves as she walked, trimmer said that was good sound as it indicated good concavity, I think the trimmer‘s words were ‘Ah, that‘s a good sound, that‘s a sign the hoof mechanism will be working, that there‘s good concavity‘. The pony was then taken out and asked to stand correctly for photo graphs to show the good shoulder leg hoof alignment.

After the pony had walked up and down in the barn it was apparent she was sore. When asked why the trimmer stated that 'she was just feeling her new hooves, they will feel different but she'll soon get used to them'. After the photos the owner insisted on bringing her back into the barn and pads were fitted.
As I said the trimmer asked where those were bought and what were they made of...

I left shortly after this.

Also please read latest posts on here... ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gh11&action=display&thread=116664&page=8

[amanda1066]

I am also happy to receive 'friendly' private messages from anyone who has been through this. I am an owner NOT a trimmer so am unable to give trimming advice, but am available for support and sharing.

[amanda1066]

Just to copy the addition to my latest post of the IHDG as I think this is a very important part in all this.

"This written by a Strasser trained trimmer and imo should be read by everyone. There are guidelines about the 'clinic trim' which I am assuming is what was carried out on the horses I saw.

www.thehorseshoof.com/strassercontro.html


I have taken this quote from the article and believe this area needs to be addressed by Dr Strasser herself, imo it is not good enough that SHP's had to 'figure out' how to trim what is I believe the majority of domestic horses.

"Most of the successful trimmers trained by Strasser figured out through experience how to trim those "middle-ground" horses effectively, without pain, using hoofboots when appropriate, keeping the horses comfortable and moving as much as possible. Trimmed in this way, the horses show a slow, steady improvement over time, and stay sound."

Also at no point was the owner expecting a 'quick fix' and this was never offered by the trimmer. Life style was discussed apparently at the assessment visit and no changes recommended. The horses were already out on tracks with weight loss programs etc. where appropriate.

For anyone who may think that I feel less culpable in all this, I can assure you I feel very responsible and utterly ashamed. I have no excuse."