progressing my 3yo??

[bobbicotter29]

Hi all,
i've just found this site and thought wow, people in the same frame of mind as i am! I'm in Galway and I got my first horse a few weeks ago.
She's a 16.2hh 3 year old thoroughbred filly and we absolutely love her to bits! She's a very curious and seems to be a really fast learner.

I have done 3 days of free lunging her and its going really well so far. She's learning the commands faster than i thought she would, already she knows and responds to whoa, stand up, walk, trot and 90% of the time she canters when told.

what i'm wondering is, how do i naturally progress with her training? i don't want to rush her into anything, or do anything she's not ready for. i have all the time in the world to do this right, and hopefully have a much happier horse for it at the end.

at the moment i'm working in 20 minute sessions with a 10 minute wind down time with us just walking around the arena together.

so what do i do next? any advice would be greatly recieved!

thanks,

Bobbi

[Elaine]

Hello bobbi, sounds like a lucky horse to have you! have a karma!

I'd probably just keeping doing a little of the basics until she's four, and then maybe next summer do a little light riding.

With youngsters, getting all the basics right is a brilliant place to start... is she easy to lead on a loose rope, is she easy to catch, will she wait to walk out of stable when you ask her to, not just when door opens, maybe do some in hand walking around to get her out & about, introduce her to scary stuff...... umbrellas, plastic bags, cars, quads, bicycles, etc. Get her loading nicely into a horse box, good to pick up feet, doesnt mind water squirters (like fly spray, but practise first with just water in bottle), doesnt mind sound of clippers, etc. Happy to be rubbed all over on a loose rope, easy to handle in general etc. Doesn't mind a numnah being thrown up, doesnt mind sticks or ropes being waved round, etc.

Then lots of praise, short sessions like you're doing, not even every day, always trying to make it all fun & interesting.

I'd probably leave the actual backing til she's four (next spring), maybe the goal for the end of next summer to be walk, trot, canter, small cross pole, hacks out. Time for me is one of the most important things you can give a horse, esp big horses who dont physically mature until they're 7 or 8, and it will be repaid in dividends. Then also time outside with other horses to play with, grow muscle, etc.

Dave is our young horse guru so he should have lots of very good ideas.

All the best, and looking forward to some photos!!

[bobbicotter29]

Hi Elaine,

thanks so much for the reply. In response to all your questions, she is doing pretty much all those things already. She's very easy to lead once she's told to walk on every few seconds and is progressivly getting better. She's a dream to catch as she walks straight up to me when she see's me! She waits to be lead out of the stable and when i open her stable door she backs right up when asked. she doesn't have a fear of anthing she's come face to face with yet and that includes plastic bags, loud engines, huge bangs from various things or birds being stuck in the barn! She's an absolute dream to load, she walks straight into the trailer and when unloading she waits until she's told to back up. She doesn't mind her feet being picked up (we have the farrier coming next week so we'll see how she gets on with that!) and as for water spraying at her, no fear whatsoever and really rather enjoys drinking from the tap when i'm filling up her buckets!

the only area we are having trouble, and real trouble is with her rugs. She does NOT like them being put on. once they are over her back she's absolutely fine but its the initial getting them on is the problem. i've had her in a sweat sheet with a roller on (after her 1st workout and she got rained on too), and she didn't mind that, she didn't even mind the roller being tightened up. Any advice on building her confidence with the rug issue?

There are 2 other horses in the barn with her at the moment. one is a 15 year old mare who does not get on with our Mia. she does everything she can to kick and bite her so we try to keep them apart as much as possible. she does however get on very well with the gelding, which is such a relief to me, i thought she'd be bullied by both the first few days we were there but things have settled with the gelding.

here are some pics from the first few days we had her. what a beauty

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbicotter/2051086546/" title="happy sandy mia by Bobbi C, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2414/2051086546_68eb84358b.jpg" width="500" height="347" alt="happy sandy mia" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbicotter/2023424844/" title="Mia or Heidi? we're not quite sure what to call her yet. by Bobbi C, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2371/2023424844_c7a51143dc.jpg" width="334" height="500" alt="Mia or Heidi? we're not quite sure what to call her yet." /></a>

[monflat]

Welcome to the Site!!
As you have mentioned you have been doing a lot of the things Elaine suggested she looks lovely i have a 3 yr old half bred also and i feel that she is an etremely slow maturer she is 16hh and growing now physically she looks ready to ride but emotionally she is far from it as there is no rush on my part as i want to ensure all i have done with her on the ground is well established and solid before i get up on her back .
I have done as much as i could this year and she is still immature but compared to when she was a 2yr old she has come along in leaps & bounds so everyday i would just push her a few millimetres outside of her comfort zone .
I feel if you feel better at the end of your training session than you have at the start you are doing good things .
With regard to the rug issus you could use advance & retreat working within her comfort zone and get her more comfortable with the rug.
We we get preowned horses we never know what their previous experiences are and it is only through doing things everyday with her you come to realise that she aint too comfortable with one thing or another but the good thing is that you have realised this and are willing to work through it with her.

With regards to the other mare you filly is constantly testing the boundaries with her and has probably ignored all the signs of "stay away from me " etc thats when the kick comes in i know it is distressing for us humans to watch but the older mare is only teaching your filly about herd dynamics.
Sometimes you see this a lot with young horses which are kept on their own as a group and are learning young behaviours as a group and when an older maturer horse is introduced or when a young horse from that group is introduced into a different herd they do not know how to behave and there is the initial kicking biting dirty (horse ) looks !!

But it happens every day with my young horse you can see that she will push& push&push boundaries with the mare and she is ignoring all signs which years ago i would too have ignored but through some very fine tuning and hours of observations i have become more aware i find itis the gelding who looks after her it is more of a herd instinct with him to care for those within his group he is more subtle but the mare is subtle to a point where then the last resort is the kick if the 3yr old has ignored all other signs.

I know you have just purchased your horse but would it be possible to turn her away for a while? Even if it meant reducing your time spent with her for a month or longer give your self a little break as you will be very busy next year when she is 4 .
I do it each year with my filly did small amount of work with her as a yearling turned her away did small amount more as a 2 yr old turned her away when i brought her back in after her 6 month winter break she was such a different more mature horse where all that i had done with her had taken time to sink in and my god was it great working with her as a 3 yr old as she had surprised me greatly as how solid the work i had previously done with her was.
I did a little more as a 3 yr old giving her regular breaks to be a horse and now she is on her winter 6 month holiday and i am sooo excited about next year and how much more she will have matured .

If you cannot turn her away just do small amounts with her and ensure things you have done with her are solid etc!! and sit back and look forward to next year !!!

Did you get much of her history etc where she came from etc.

Good luck with her

[bobbicotter29]

hi monflat,
thanks for your reply too! oh Mia is definately testing the boundaries with this older mare! she stands just outside of the mare's reach (when the mare is in her stable and Mia loose in the barn-don't worry its totally safe!) and just moves her head about an inch when the mare goes to take a bite of her.

she is getting slowly but surely better with the rug. She's never worn them before but the weather out here is so much harsher than whats she's used to that really she does need it when turned out. i'm being very patient with her and it can take up to 15 minutes to calmly put the rug on.

we know that she wa born in scarvagh stud (http://www.scarvagh.com/), her dad is Loup Sauvage and her mother is Tijuana Bay. she was bought when she was 8 months old by the man we bought her off of. she didn't have much handling at all by this man though she was seen to daily and brought in trailers several times moving from field to field. other than that she was loose in a field with other TB's around her own age.

[monflat]

Great well the best of luck with her and enjoy it

[lauradomenica]

Hi Roberta,

Your filly is absolutely gorgeous and you are doing wonderfully well.

Elaine has given you the best advice when she says try to spend time on getting her confident about the basics, these are the foundations. Its what most people gloss over.

About the rug, first of all, we all have to remember, it's not really about the rug, or the trailer or the clippers or whatever.

Its about her trust in you and her confidence in what you do.

Here's a little bit of guidance to build confidence in the rug.

You can do this in an arena, you will need room to move.
Think of it as a game.
This will give you the right "intent"

You are going to play "catch the rug"

Have your filly on a longish line.
Walk away from her with the rug in your hand.
Face in the direction you are going, away from her.
Go somewhere with the rug and put it down there.
You can be arranging it like you were going to have a picnic on it.
Be purposeful in the going, and casual in the doing.
Forget you have a rug in your hand, this is by the by.
All the expectation must be out of your body, your life
down, look at the scenery.

Wait. Observe her. See if she investigates it

We are looking for CURIOSITY to come to up, nothing more.

It is easier to arouse curiosity when you retreat, less threatening for the horse. As you retreat with the rug , if she wants to sniff it, let her and also occasionally keep it just out of her reach by going back, this increases curiosity.

If you realise she is still apprehensive of it, keep retreating.
WAIT for her to start to investigate the rug.
You want it to be HER idea

Let her do what she likes with it, mouth it , paw it, she's just making sure its dead.

Progress to lifting it up, flapping it a little, always retreat if she
gets unconfident and then re-approach.

The thing to do is not to feel the need to get it on her, so
forget even having this as your objective.

Eventually you should be able to stand close to her with the rug in your hand, then touch her shoulder with the rug in your hand.
What you need to feel is that you are just going to pat her on her shoulder BUT i just happen to have a rug in my hand when i am doing it.

Always allow her to retreat by allowing the rope to slip through your hand or retreat yourself.

Retreat,retreat..this is the way to keep your self calm and therefore her.
Retreat helps build ]your confidence as much as hers.
Take your time.

A little Story:

My young Friesian (who had been quickly and badly backed) had an issue with her saddle. She was not really scared at all, but i could tell she was not confident either. There was slight tension.
I did this with the saddle:

Put it on the ground. She investigated it from every possible angle, she sniffed it, pushed it, licked it, bit it, turned it over, lifted it up.

You could just see she was saying, "so this is the thing that was stuck on my back... i didn't even know what it was"
It went on for ten minutes. Ten minutes can seem like a very long time.

Then she was suddenly very still, her head dropped and she made a series of huge jaw cracking yawns. BINGO.
It would has been easy to miss the subtle signs of lack of confidence in my mare as she is introverted when it comes to a lot of her fear issues.
I knew I was right to give her the time she needed.I also knew those watching thought she was messing and i was nuts!

The second time, she played with the saddle for a couple of minutes in the same manner, the third she sniffed it and started grazing. That's when i put it on her back. She stood with her head down, rope dangling on the ground,while I saddled her up and did up the girth.I then unsaddled her and put her back in her field.
This took three sessions over three days, but she is now fully confident.
Hope this helps a bit.
laura
>

[bobbicotter29]

Hi Laura,

thank you so much for your reply. that was indeed photos of my filly you saw linked above, she is a real beauty

Tomorrow in our training, we've already had today's 20 minute session where she learned downward transition commands, clever girl had it nailed at the end of the session too, i will bring her into the arena with her rug. this makes so much sense now that i've heard it. she has no idea whats being put on her and why, of course she'd be anxious over it. She's a very curious girl and i'm sure this will probably work for her, once she knows, she'll be fine (i'm thinking ahead and will do the same when introducing her saddle!).

thanks you so much again and i will let you know if i'm successful.

Bobbi

[Elaine]

looking forward to the update already!

[bobbicotter29]

Hi all,
so i'm just back from the stables and re-introducing Mia to her rug. I have to say, it went pretty well. We decided to do it in the barn as its really windy today here in galway so the rug probably would have blown away on us altogether!! I put the other 2 horses into their stables and clearned the barn so the only things in there were Mia, the rug, Peadar (my partner) and myself, oh and a little bit of hay to keep te young lady happy! Peadar layed the rug out in the middle of the barn as Mia and I walked around "investigating", as soon as she heard the jingle of the buckles she turned to look at the rug. she wanted to go over to it so i let her, just holding the leadrope really loose.

she started to sniff, nuzzle and lick her rug. she then picked up one of the straps and had a wee chew. She lifted the rug up a few times and dropped it again. she seemed happy enough after all this, noticed the hay and went to have a nibble. I brought the rug ove near where she was and this time she only looked around at it for a second. i stood talking to Peadar while Mia had some hay, occasionally she'd look up and have another sniff and lick of her rug. i started to stroke her nose with the rug and she had no problem with that. i tried to stroke her shoulder but she backed up a step or 2 so i pulled back away from her too. she came up again to investigate the rug a bit more, she especially likes the material around the bottom rim of the rug!

to finish off i was stroking her nose again with the rug, and she was totally relaxed with this. Peadar and i feel already there's an improvement as before if we'd gone anywhere near her with the rug she'd dance about whereas now today she stood quiet as a lamb. We're going to do the same thing with her again this evening and hopefully she'll let me stroke her shoulder with it this time, but definately there is already an improvement.

thanks so much laura for the great advice, we really appreciate it

Bobbi

[Elaine]

Good work! with the shoulder, start off with just holding it *near* her shoulder. If she stands still, take rug away. if she moves, try again but with rug a little farther away.

Repeat this a few times, only geting a fraction closer if she is comfortable with it. The idea is that she being rewarded for standing still by the rug moving away - she's actually training the rug to go away

When she's fine with it being very near her shoulder then your're ready to do a very low key little rub on her shoulder. Hopefully she'll at this stage be quite chillded out with the whole rug thing, and wont mind, then you take rug away, give her a rub & end lesson as a reward. (ending lessons at unexpected times, after a particicularly good attempt by your horse is SOOOOOO effective!)

I found with my youngster one / two / three small five or ten minute session a day, rather than one long session worked realy well. They do definitely think about stuff in between.

[bobbicotter29]

thanks, i'll try this again this evening Elaine. She was fine when I was about 2 feet from her shoulder but any closer than that and she'd back away from the rug. I hope she's thinking right now about the rug and deciding its not the worst thing ever

Hope we have more progress later, i'm sure we will, she's a great girl

[lauradomenica]

Hi Bobbi, keep up the good work.

Ah well done Elaine I forgot to mention the "go away" bit when she stands still.

I find it is a really challenging to put this stuff into words. In fact teaching in general is making me more exact about and really making me think about the process and how i put it accross.
I'm a good few years out of academia, my brain hurts!

I have worked with so many amazing horsemen/ women but not all of them have been such good teachers. That is another art in itself.

Laura Domenica

[Elaine]

I think its always easier though to do this stuff when you've got the horse standing in front of you ;D It really is all about trust & confidence isn't it ;D ;D ;D

[bobbicotter29]

we had another go at this lastnight and she was a little bit better. she had more sniffs, licks, bites and nibbles of the rug when it was in my hand. when she'd stand still with the rug by her i'd back away after a short period and tell her she was a "good girl", she always responds to that really well!! i'd go a little closer next time, she'd stay still, i'd back away, reward, we did this a few times until i was standing right beside her shoulder with the rug. all she did was look around and sniff the rug. i gently stroked her shoulder with the rug, she wasn't overly thrilled i could tell but she stood still so i backed away. i returned to stroke her shoulder once more and since she stood still i left it at that for the evening and rewarded her.

i hope at lunch time today that she's better again with it. thankfully its not cold out here, its very unseasonably mild, so i'm not too concerned that she's get a chill without the rug. But i do hope she'll accept it soon enough before the weather does get cold and allow me put it on her.

i really appreciate all the advice everyone, thanks so much

[lauradomenica]

Don't worry too much Bobbi, thoroughbreds grow the most amazing woolly coats! You have time.

In France when i was training there we had thoroughbreds, quarter horses and dutch warnbloods all wintering out with no rugs. They had good shelter, but rarely used it and it was a whole lot colder than here . Mind you if you get the rain and the wind down there and no shelter thats no fun. Still lets hope it doesn't get cold till after xmas.

If you feel you have the confidence, and only if, you an progress things faster.

You just put it on her back, slowly, deliberately and with great purpose.

As Elaine says the minute she stands still, remove it, that's her reward.

You may have to drift with her a little until she stands still, but if she feels you are chasing her with it all is lost. It is all about your confidence that you can do it., not hers. she will just take the confidence in this scary thing from you.

It might help to say to her out loud or even in to yourself, if that seems too silly.

Try this sweetie, you need it to keep you warm , otherwise as the fine thoroughbred that you are you are going to catch your death.... so please trust me, just try it on for size.

Don't be afraid, trust me, is a phrase i say a lot.

looking forward to hearing how it goes.

laura

[bobbicotter29]

thanks laura

she does have a lovely soft coat already, and its still quite warm (though not today, brrr!!) so i'm not really too worried about the cold as i said. i'll give it another go today.

Last night when i was cleaning out her stable i had her tied up inthe barn and put the rug down on the ground beside her, within a few minutes she was picking it up and moving it here and there, so she most definately knows now that its dead!! I talk to her all the time anyway, so it wouldn't be too unusual for me to talk to her when putting the rug on.

I used to know this pony in my old riding school, he wasn'ttreated very well by his previous owners and was very nervous. People were terrified of going in to tack him up as he's bite, kick and rear up, but my instructor and I discovered the only way to tack him up was to tell him a story in a really quiet calm voice while it was being done, and he stood as quiet as a lamb then. Made such a difference to just talk to him. Its amazing.

Anyway, i've work to do and Mia's lunchtime lesson for today to prepare in my mind!

-Bobbi

[bobbicotter29]

Guess who's wearing her rug since lastnight!?
At last!!
We decided that some tough love was needed and we put the rug on Mia lastnight. She wasn't overly thrilled at it being put on but not even 30 seconds later she didn't even notice it on her. She seemed happy enough in it this afternoon too, probably cause its only about 5 degrees out!!

[bobbicotter29]

she got her first shoes put on this morning!!
so proud of her, she did really well. i was full sure she'd have the farrier flung across the barn, cause if she doesn't like something she makes it known! But nope, she was an angel
he said she has really good feet for a TB too, they're prone to thin hoof walls, but he said she has lovely thick walls, strong feet and in great natural shape. Yay!!

[Elaine]

well done you