Ricky Quinn (Buck B trained)- Ireland March 2009

[babs]

Hello, I was one of the participants in the Ricky Quinn clinic at Dragonhold on the Saturday, so I was interested to see the discussion going on here. I wrote to the organisers afterwards, and have since had a long email back from Ricky, which I appreciated. Below is the message I sent to the organisers – as you will see I am a Libran, and tend to see two sides of everything… Barbara

I found the clinic very interesting. What was important for me was that, having shown me once, the second time my TB flared up, Ricky got me to do the calming exercise myself. This was tremendously confidence building for me. I had always managed before by getting my horse so calm that he was flopping around the place. Since discovering ‘natural horsemanship’, I have stayed at home and avoided going where there would be other horses. This was my first ever clinic with him, tho I used to be in a busy livery yard and do jumping competitions, etc.
By making us work at that ‘high octane’ level with the horses, for the first time I actually felt that I could control him in high gear, as opposed to ‘changing down’ first, if you see what I mean. I have done ground work and ridden since, and have been able to get and keep ‘going forward’ in the saddle, yet still feel in control, which felt really good.
Having said all that, I am still trying to come to terms with the extraordinary battles that Ricky had with each horse. They were really epic, and felt like Greek drama to me, - so much seemed to be at stake, yet the outcome so inevitable. When he was whirling around the arena with my Batman (black TB) in a maelstrom of flying hooves, tails and [as he kept emphasising] 1,000 pounds of pounding horseflesh, I was amazed, frightened I was going to get hit as I was pinned against the arena wall, and emotional at seeing my horse go through this.
The catharsis felt by the horse afterwards was clear in each case. I appreciate that Ricky was completely calm even with that incredible strength and firmness he showed. Yet I am left with doubts. The most important point is that I have seen my horse equally supple, soft and compliant with a NH practitioner who uses no force at all. More pragmatically, this does not seem to be a part of the clinic that any of us are ever going to be able to even think about copying, but it seemed to be very much part of Ricky’s way of emotionally sorting it out with the horse.

I’d be really interested to hear what any of the others who went to his clinics thought.

[Elaine]

I was looking for a quote to sum up what I feel and I found this:

We have almost forgotten how strange a thing it is that so huge and powerful and intelligent an animal as a horse should allow another, and far more feeble animal, to ride upon its back. Peter Gray

The least we can do is treat our horses with kindness and respect, in return for everything they give us. I heard a nice adaption of the 'grace before meals' prayer recently, which sums up for me where you should be as you're about to go out and catch your horse for a ride or training session.

'Bless us O lord, for this thy horse, and for the gifts we are about to receive.'

[gary]

I was at the clinic in Ballinasloe on Sun, having been to Dragonhold the previous week. I enjoyed the clinic immensley and seen a lot of good stuff. I thought ricky was a good horseman, he was polite, professional. At the start of the clinic he asked everyone who they where, what experiences of horses/this style of horsemanship they had and what issues/problems they wanted to work on. He made sure that by the end of the day, that everyones issues had been addressed. He appears to be a straight talking man, who tells it like it is which some people may take to be arrogance, but then the Americans don't beat about the bush like we Irish tend to.
The Irish Draught that was commented on earlier was at the clinic all weekend, so the comments made about the owner not making the horse available for the remainder of the clinic were innaccurate. I didn't observe any signs of the 'injuries' alluded to earlier. If the poster was so concerned, why leave & turn a blind eye when she could have taken it further. I did not see any stressed out horses or people, yes the techniques may have been new & different & taken a while to get used to but most commented that they seen good differences in their horses almost immediately. From where I am there appears to be some exaggeration of the facts in a few posts, fair enough if the Vaquero Style is not for you, there's no need to resort to libelious comments. I personally like the Vaquero style and am getting good results with my horses.

[cinch]

Having read the latest feedback that has been left, I would like to set the record straight on a couple of things. I was in Ballinasloe from Friday to Sunday so saw the demo and all the clinics held over the weekend. I also partook in the 3 of the 4 clinics with two different horses. Firstly, with regard to the demo, I would like to fill in a few of the gaps left by Griffin on this matter. What she neglected to mention was that by the end of the demo, the “unloadable” horse was willingly going into the trailer with Ricky directing him all the way from the front seat of the pickup truck that was hooked up to the trailer. Secondly, the horse certainly didn’t have any marks or welts as previously suggested by Griffin. Incidentally, that same horse was in both the clinics on Saturday and Sunday. And thirdly, when Ricky asked were there any questions at the end of the demo - one man said he wanted to see the horse loading backwards now. Ricky asked was he willing to bet on it, but no one replied. The comment about the horse’s dignity was not made aloud at the demo, as I was only sitting a couple of seats away from Griffin. I would have heard it. But do you not think that Ricky respected the horse’s dignity by not pleasing the crowd as I am sure he would have been able to load the horse that way?
It angers me that these issues that people have with Ricky weren’t brought up with him in person, rather than hiding behind the anonymity of an internet forum. He is passionate about horses and what he does. He has a feel for the horse. Sometimes it gets a bit active ( but you’ve seen what horses get like with each other when a new member comes into the herd – they certainly don’t offer each other a cup of tea! It’s much the same), this only happens when the horse tries to run through pressure instead of giving to it. And of course this depends on the horse and its history. If you watch Ricky carefully you will see him release to the horse as soon as the horse gives him a try. I was watching him working around me with a variety of different horses and words can not describe just how soft this guy is with his hands when it comes to the horse on the end of the line. Ricky is true to his horsemanship and speaks from the heart. He tells it like it is, he’s not out to massage anyone’s ego. I cannot make it to the last clinic but I will not forget anytime soon the passion that Ricky has for his horsemanship and I hope to get out to his Ranch for some clinics one day.

[galskap]

Hello

I went to watch Rickys clinic in Ballinasloe and enjoyed it greatly. These impressions are from saturdays and sunday mornings clinic only as I unfortunately couldnt stay for the rest.

I returned home inspired, and there has been new understandings and improvements in my own work after watching the clinic. There were maybe things I would not copy, some elements that I missed, but then I don't go to watch someone to tick down everything I do not like about that persons style of working. I've only got so much focus and concentration, I'd rather spend it on absorbing the good stuff!

I would not stay around a demonstration of violence or abuse, but I didnt see any of that at the clinic. Firmness, yes, loads of it, and there were situations where there could have been other options to that firmness. But it was firmness coming from a balanced and grounded place, a place of respect and feel for the horse – not once from a place of anger, impatience or frustration. I doubt he would have gotten so much respectful attention from the horses if he had come from such a place. I could see no horses with frightened, sour or shut-down looks after he had worked with them.

The weak points of the clinic as I saw it has already been mentioned – that a clinic is happening to teach the people, not the horses. It would be concerning if people went home and tried to get that highly energetic firmness to work for them without the refinement, timing and emotional groundedness that is needed for it to make sense to the horse. Ricky could have emphasized more on what it was that made things work out in the work that he did.

As for his teaching style with people, Ricky seemed both respectful and encouraging to his students. He took time to explain stuff in detail. That's not to say he wasn't rude, but I for one would rather have an honest teacher than a polite one. I know how very humbling it can feel to be out there working in front of an audience and come to face your own limitations so abruptly – but then you can learn a lot from a situation like that. Your strong points you probably already know about.

Anya

[griffin]

Firstly let me reply to Cinch's comment on 'hiding behind the anonymity of an internet forum'.

My identity is not hidden. My name is Griffin and most people on this forum are aware of who I am and what I do. My door is always open for ANYONE who wants to discuss my personal views. And as for the claim that my comment about how much the horse's dignity was worth not being spoken aloud it is interesting than that the person sitting to my left heard it as did the four to my right, perhaps they are mind readers. As Ricky was only a few feet away I assume he heard too, perhaps not. Selective hearing and vision seems to be the order of the day.
Cinch perhaps as you were sitting so close and seem therefore to be aware of who I am you would like to intoduce yourself or would you prefer to remain hidden??

Gary, if you read the first paragragh of my original post you will see that I praise Ricky for his horsemanship, particularly his release.
As for leaving and turning a blind eye, what would you have me do? I stayed till the end as I always do at any demo and what I saw that in my opinion was excessive was nothing you would not see in any collecting ring at any equestrian event in this country, its not illegal just in my opinion distasteful and unnessesary.

I did not raise my issues directly at the demo because I wanted to go away and assess what I had watched so that I could make a rational choice based on the facts and evidence rather than an emotive response. I am happy to discuss it with anyone including Ricky himself.

Cinch, I did not fail to mention that Ricky loaded the horse, it's right there in my post, that's selective vision again. As to the fact that you think the horse was 'happy' to load we must have very different views on what a 'happy' horse looks like. The fact that the horse attended the clinic does not make my previous post 'inaccurate' it just means the owner changed her mind.

The fact that he loaded the horse from the front of a pickup is all very impressive and has been done before but how many of you saw the 40 ft rope get caught on the back of the trailer while the horse was trying to load? The horse came up against the pressure, stopped and because Ricky was in the pick up rather than present with the horse to help and support him he didn't notice and kept asking the horse to go forward. The result was a confused, stressed animal. This happened twice in succession. In my personal opinion what came across as a result was that Ricky was more concerned about showmanship and ego than what was best for the horse. Interestingly that is something he accussed his nemesis Pat Parelli of. I do not know Ricky personally and so can only go on what happened at the demo, that is the point of a demo. The point is that I spoke to 6 other people afterwards, that appearred to me to be roughly 50% of the audiance, who felt the same way. If that is not the image he intends to portray perhaps he needs to review his demo format.

[cinch]

Hi Griffin, In relation to your comments towards me and my user name??? as i see it 90% of people using this site have a name that i'm sure there parent did not christen them with!! I will not argue over a user name.I'm not on Ricky Quinns advert page to stoop to a low level and argue the petty points of why i use a name such as cinch. And i dont really care who may know you on this site or not as the case may be. So go back and read the comment i put to you about "hiding behind the anonymity of the internet forum". how does some one come to the collusion that 5mins into a demo that you have made your mind made up about Ricky, as you stated on your first comment were "he lost me...." and then behind the mans back you bad mouthed him instead of going to him after the demo and speaking your mind,maybe thats not your style.....! And just to set the record straight; i did read your description of the trailer loading correctly. its a pity you did not read my last comment to you in the same light. where did it say in your original comment that Ricky loaded the horse from the front seat of the pick up!?? Selected vision i guess! I was not the one to make allegations that are not true and have now been removed by admin! how childish and narrow minded one can be when both eyes and ears are closed. I will leave you with this, Instead of using this forum that supposed to be for honest points of view on such things as demos, you can send me any dribble you may think of to my personal message box. Thanks for the reply Cathy.

[Admin]

All posters are asked to read the forum rules. ADMIN.

[kas]

I think people need to calm down. Nobody can set anyone straight on their opinion, people are entitled to their opinions.
I also don't think it's appropriate to refer to a comment that admin have been considerate enough to delete. They were being helpful.
I hope Ricky Quinn comes to the UK, I shall certainly look forward to seeing him in action. ;D
I've just re-read some of the above.

Having said all that, I am still trying to come to terms with the extraordinary battles that Ricky had with each horse. They were really epic, and felt like Greek drama to me, - so much seemed to be at stake, yet the outcome so inevitable. When he was whirling around the arena with my Batman (black TB) in a maelstrom of flying hooves, tails and [as he kept emphasising] 1,000 pounds of pounding horseflesh, I was amazed, frightened I was going to get hit as I was pinned against the arena wall, and emotional at seeing my horse go through this.

You know what? If I saw that happening with every horse at a clinic I would start to question why. I've never been at a clinic where every horse has had to go to a mental place like that.

[Admin]

Every persons perception of any event is different. There is also a difference between a discussion and an argument. Personal insults will not be tolerated. Views from both sides of the fence have now been expressed fully enough, and I see no purpose in leaving this thread open.

Admin.