Ricky Quinn (Buck B trained)- Ireland March 2009

[Elaine]

www.rickyquinnclinics.com/

Ricky Quinn
Influenced by Tom Dorrance and Ray Hunt and trained by the world renowned Buck Brannaman, Ricky is now coming to Ireland to offer you the opportunity to learn traditional and effective horsemanship skills. From day to day handling to problem horses, these techniques can add to your repertoire of skills. Dealing with issues ranging from starting young horses to problems loading.

Ricky travels the United States helping people with their horses. He carries on the tradition of the Vaquero style of horsemanship, creating a true partnership with his horses. It truly is a struggle to put into words what Ricky does for horses and people alike.

Clinic Dates

March 13-15
Dragonhold Stables, Newcastle Co. Wicklow

March 20-22
Creagh Equestrian Centre, Ballinasloe, Co. Galway

March 27-29
Rostrevor Equestrian Centre, Near Newry Co. Down

Format

Friday Evening 7-9 demonstration spectators only all welcome €20

Sat/Sun 10-1 and 2-5
Each session is 3 hours working with your own horse both on the ground and in the saddle.
€65 per person per session in advance €75 on the day

Spectators also welcome Saturday and Sunday €20

[Elaine]

The wicklow one is on Paddy's weekend so with luck I will be there ;D

[welshgirl]

Thanks for the mention Elaine!

Heres a nice bios of Ricky www.mikethomashorsemen.com/horsemen-and-horsewomen/profile--ricky-quinn-jr

[welshgirl]

Forgot to add contact details:


[e-mail]
0863863163

[gary]

I was at the Ricky Quinn clinic in Dragonhold yesterday (14 Mar), it was great to get the opportunity to watch Ricky Quinn handling horses, without a carrott stick, and fixing such common problems, like loading horses, so easily. His style of horsemanship is an inspiration. I learnt so much much yesterday, it is well worth it to make an effort to go see him. Gary

[cinch]

I'll second that Gary! I've just spent the weekend at Ricky Quinn's demonstration and clinics as well and I found the Demo fasinating and it was great to see the horsemanship being applied to the different horses at the clinics on the following two days. We can learn so much from his horsemanship skills - I certainly have! Definitely the best horsemanship I've seen in Ireland yet. No gimmicks, no gadgets, just true horsemanship.

[gary]

I have no vested interest or affilliation to Ricky Quinn or any of the clinic organisers. I attended the clinic and was impressed with what I saw. I found out about the clinic & decided to attend it because of the this forum/website. I resent being warned for false advertising, if I wanted to do that why on earth would I use my business email registering on this site & so completely & easily identify myself?. I have a 5 yr old thoroughbred who I want to train to ride western style & have being trying to use natural horsemanship with. I put into practice some of his techniques this morning and had good results. I was under the impression that the purpose of this site was to encourage natural horseman ship, I liked what I saw at the clinic and thought i might encourage others with similar interests/problems to go along.

[Admin]

Apologies for the confusion. Reports on any clinics by riders or spectators are more than welcome.

Welcome to the board Gary & Cinch.

Admin.

[Soracha]

why did he have to get after the horses so much? When a horse made an error, he anihilated the animal for it. What was that all about?

The arc exercise was good and I will continue on with that. I also get the dis-engaging hinds now and can see how all that stuff is so necessary for a horse to be balanced in riding.

I think ricky was too rough. And dismissive of us. My horse is mannerly on the ground and why did he have to say "your horses are all swinging out of you/blah blah" my horse didn't, i've done that work before. My horse is obliging.

I'd have to say, if i'd a very dominant horse, ricky would be the man. A dangerous horse - Ricky'd get him sorted. He's sort any animal out. But the docile ones, the not so dominant ones, the level of pressure and hardness he used on them didn't seem necessary.

[mandy]

I attended the clinic on sat. To say I was appalled is putting it mildly. Firstly Ricky did not introduce himself or engage with any of his participants. He didn't ask what anybody wanted to work on or indeed announce what he thought would be a good place to start - instead he insulted his participants by telling them that their horses were walking all over them! Did he even know what experience or not any of his handlers had of this type of horsemanship to date or indeed if any of the horses had any issue or injuries to be mindful of? Clearly if someone has taken the trouble to box their horse to a strange venue and take part in a clinic they are hoping to learn something to help their relationship with their horse and have an open mind. Ricky may indeed know his stuff but was extremely aggressive to his horse and clearly does not have one iota how to teach. I was left in no doubt when it comes to starting a horse he gets the job done - but there are ways and means. As for encouraging or teaching anyone else - NO WAY! I was horrified to think what ideas on horsemanship any of those participants on sat. went home with - and worse still how their poor horses felt! I lasted less than an hour as I just could not bare it. My feelings were that it was a sad day for horsemanship in Ireland.

[gary]

When people hear the words natural horsemanship they think of Parelli, Monty Roberts, Clinton Anderson etc, then when they hear about Buck B, Ricky Quinn, Ray Hunt, Tom & BIll Dorrence they automatically assume that they are all the same but they are not. They also expect them to use the same approach but they don't. The style of horsemanship used by Buck B, Ricky Quinn etc has evolved over thousand of years and has a proven track record of success. To a person unfamiliar with it, at first it may seem rough/hard on the horses but it is not, the more familiar eye will notice the pressure & release that is occuring.

I am a fan of Buck B and have read his material, I like his style of horsemanship & knew that Ricky Quinn had worked along side him for a while, when I heard Ricky was coming to Ireland I was delighted to get the opportunity to see him work.

I think its a sad day for horsemanship when people only see merit in one type of horsemanship, they all have something to offer.

I have to say that I learnt a lot on sat and having started to use some of the techniques I can already see a vast improvement in my horse. I accept that not everyone will have the same experience/opinion of this event, everyone experience things differently.

[Lope On Out]

I was at this demo and clinic on Friday & Saturday, and I have to say that I really enjoyed it. Maybe that's because I went in with my eyes open - I am already familiar with the methods that he uses. To understand it, you need to know how it evolved and that is out on the ranch; from the need to have a solid and dependable partner in your horse. If your horse decided to have an "off day" when you were out in the middle of nowhere, you could find yourself in a life/death situation. It's a far cry from your average stables here in Ireland, where 99% of our horses do not have a proper job to do and we certainly don't depend on them. I think a lot of the time we do not demand the consistency with our horses that we should and that is required and expected with this style of horsemanship. Plus, there is nothing natural about horsemanship (we all know this anyway). These guys use basic equipment, stuff they have at their disposal at all times - their lariat/rope. This is why they do not use any other gadgets or sticks. Let's face it, as a nation of predominately English riders, we are all guilty of using gadgets at some stage, be it crops to De Gogues. All we need do is look at the "Pro" riders out there that can be seen in the practise ring with draw reins pulling in their horse's head. We need to get back to basics.....and this is where it starts.

[Elaine]

Have karma'd everyone ;D

[mandy]

Its amazing how easy it is to assume! I too have read all Buck B's material but my favourite and first book on the subject is True Horsemanship Through Feel by the Dorrence brothers. Our book shelves are full of books written by all sorts of other renowned trainers - each offering nuggets of knowledge and ideas. Having attended some of their clinics along the way I have found them to not only be professional in their approach to their participants but have the ability to part the knowledge. Teaching skills are separate to other skills.
My concern was for those that were not familiar with these methods.

[cinch]

Hi Mandy. i veiwed your comment but i cant agree. i was at the demo and clinics over that weekend in wicklow. i found them very informative and interesting. I also spoke to Ricky Quinn before and after the demo and clinics and found him to be a very polite and profesional.its a pitty you didnt see the demo. I like Bill and Tom Dorrance too and got most of their stuff they ever put out to media. That book is excelent. You may have this dvd but if not then you got to get it. Its called FeeL, Timing & Balance by Tom Dorrance.

[griffin]

I was at the demo last night at Ballinasloe.
I think Ricky is an excellent horseman who knows what he is doing and will achieve anything he sets out to do with any horse.
His releases were spot on almost every time, there was only one occasion that I saw him miss it. His body language and positioning were almost faultless. He got the job done in a way the horse understood. He was honest with the horse and consistant. 'do what I tell you when I tell you or you will get smacked with this rope'. Would I allow him to work with any of the 34 horses in my care? NO! And here is why...

He lost me the minute he said 'there are only 3 true horsemen, Tom Dorrance, Ray Hunt and Buck B. No other horseman matters or exists.'
All 3 are outstanding but so are so many others who all have something to offer and bring to the table. I find any blinkered horsemanship restrictive. Pat Parelli is obviously a thorn in his side as he asked people not to mention him! And yet Pat preaches the Dorrances and hunt methods!!!!!!!

He was so offensive and arrogant towards the audiance. He told us that we wouldnt get most of what he was doing. The poor owner was told that Ricky would get the horse so good at loading that he would load inspite of the owner rather than because of her!!!!!!! If she wanted to be any good she had to stop being like her and start being like him!!!!!! The poor woman practically ran from the arena with her 'fixed' horse mumbling excuses about how she wasnt available for the clinic! He crushed her istead of teaching her.

He constantly asked us if anyone would like to put money on him not loading the horse. One man said he would bet money the horse wouldnt load in backwards. He asked how much he was willing to bet. I asked him how much the horse' dignity was worth to him, he didnt answer.

Ricky got the job done but at the expense of the horse. The beautiful grey Draught left the arena with *missing text* MODIFIED BY ADMIN.

The horse learned to load and move his feet and do exactly what he was told when he was told but somewhere in all that the true horse within was lost and we were left with a robot. I dont want a robot I want a partner. Partnership is not achieved by violence.

Im glad I went as I learnt a lot, as I do at any demo. Mostly I learned how easily people and horses can have their dignity crushed by a poor teacher.

[Elaine]

I saw Ricky up in Dublin. I learned some things too.

1. He knew his stuff. Start off by getting the backup and yields in and soften up horse. Though he didn't include confidence here.
2. His timing for the most part was very good as well. He's obviously (as he said) trained a lot of horses.

But.... (there's not always a but, but this time there was)

1. He wasn't a good teacher of people. He made blanket statements which showed he didn't take the time to see what each horse in the arena was like. He didn't engage the students. A lot of them, while doing their best, looked totally lost for most of it. He was teaching at a different level to what the students were doing. But not everyone is a good teacher, and as long as he wasn't hurting anyone I'd usually just leave and chalk it up to experience.

The comments I am about to make are only personal ones, based on what I saw on Saturday. Anyone can disagree with me if they like

What got me was the level of force used, which was unnecessary for the individual horses I saw him work with. Either he mistakingly thought all of the horses present were dangerous or had serious behavioural issues, or he was on a very strict time schedule and wanted to get fast results whatever the cost to the horse's.

Strongly whacking a horse with a lead rope with a bit in its mouth by a grown man is not good, and not necessary for any of the horses I saw there.

Having horses so wound up and panicked that the spectators can hear skin scraping on the wooden panels of the walls, more than once, is not good.

Working on yields in such a rough way that one horse damaged the skin on his own leg, and was so tense when brought home (after doing yielding exercises!) that his owner had to give him a few days off, is not good.

Having horses on edge and panicked at the start of a clinic is one thing - new places, excitement, lack of confidence. Having the horses still on edge, whizzing about in stressed trots and still panicked at the end of a nearly three hour clinic is something else indeed.

While the stuff he wanted to teach the horses and people was good - respect, yields, soften up horse, correct horse when he leans on you, he was unnecessarily violent (note: 'unnecessarily' - you will from time to time come across dangerous horse situations where you've got to use once hair more pressure than the horse, but this was not the case that day). If you work or own a horse, you have a responsibility to the horse to treat him fairly and to keep him safe, and then also ideally to work together, have fun and respect each other. From what I saw Ricky didn't consider any of that.

I find it difficult to sit there and say nothing while someone is overly 'hard' horse, particularly if they aim to teach others this style of behaviour is ok. It didn't matter to me he was a 'natural-type trainer'. I'm not bothered by labels. He was unfair on the horses and used too much force.

[welshgirl]

Regarding the above comments on Friday demo horse having welts, unless you have irrefutable proof that welts where caused to any horse during the clinic by Ricky Quinn or anybody in conjunction with the clinic held at Ballinasloe please refrain from such aspersions. This is the world wide web and a public forum.

It is not part of Ricky Quinn’s methodology to use excessive force or pain as tools. Ricky Quinn is an established trainer and his reputation is his business and such accusations could be considered defamation of character or slander.

If anybody would like to contact me regarding this issue or any other then contact me by the e-mail provided.

[kas]

I've been lurking here for a while, and this discussion interests me greatly, it rings some bells with my personal experience. Which has nothing to do with Ricky Quinn...
I was a long-term Parelli student, I saw horses treated in a way that I was told was fair. It looked harsh, but I believed the dire warnings about what could happen to me if I didn't get my horse's "respect". Lope's post echoes the sort of justification I was given during my studies, and that I repeated to others. However, I started to get to see more horsemen, people like Mark Rashid to name just one, and it made me start to question the level of force I was being taught to use. I realised that I could get just as good results without as much physical and mental trauma, and my horse and I were more comfortable in ourselves as a result.
I have been fortunate enough to watch a lot of trainers, and I've bumped into El a few times along the way. It gives perspective, stretches my beliefs of what is possible. Personally, I wouldn't give the time of day to a trainer who conducted himself in the way people are relating they saw this man behave. Why bother when there are so many who can do as well, with a more fair approach to the horses?
Apart from anything else, all good "horse trainers" know that most of the training needs to be done with the person, not the horse. Sounds as if this man could do with brushing up on his people skills if he really wants to get good at helping horses. I assume he does want to help horses?

[drifter6]

Nice to see that there is a bit of horse-since still about, well said kas.